#685

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Re: #685

Postby MadCat on Tue May 17, 2011 12:11 am

@Treb: Excellent post! I think you made very good points, and I'm glad you mentioned the link between homophobia and misogyny, and the vile 'culture of rape' that exists in the military (and the prison system.) I like your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. ( ^_^ )b

@Jayleia I didn't think anyone had suggested the military be dictating civilian policy. I was stating how I believed the military should dictate policy among its own members. I also believe the civilian society at large should do the same thing I suggested: make it clear that prejudice and hatred are not acceptable, and teach people that from day one, with appropriate legal punishments for transgressions.

I certainly agree that the military should not be dictating policy to society at large. If anything, the reverse should be true, that the military should follow standard legal policies for criminal activities. No secret deals, no special arrangements; fair trials and due process, and appropriate punishment for the crime. (Of course, this is in a hypothetical world where the legal system actually works correctly. Sigh...)
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Re: #685

Postby Jayleia on Tue May 17, 2011 1:42 am

MadCat wrote:@Jayleia I didn't think anyone had suggested the military be dictating civilian policy. I was stating how I believed the military should dictate policy among its own members. I also believe the civilian society at large should do the same thing I suggested: make it clear that prejudice and hatred are not acceptable, and teach people that from day one, with appropriate legal punishments for transgressions.


It's not been suggested as them dictating civilian policy. But it is reflected as certain civilians being overly deferential to the views of "the military" (as long as those views reflected their politics), and then using the military support of that policy as a club against people that oppose it.

I'm thinking mainly about the theocrats using the military's homophobia against everyone else with a whine of how we hate the military for dictating who they take in. Accepting that conditions us to accepting other things.

It's the slippery slope argument, without a clearly defined slope ^_^
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Re: #685

Postby MadCat on Wed May 18, 2011 6:47 am

Jayleia wrote:It's not been suggested as them dictating civilian policy. But it is reflected as certain civilians being overly deferential to the views of "the military" (as long as those views reflected their politics), and then using the military support of that policy as a club against people that oppose it.

I'm thinking mainly about the theocrats using the military's homophobia against everyone else with a whine of how we hate the military for dictating who they take in. Accepting that conditions us to accepting other things.

It's the slippery slope argument, without a clearly defined slope ^_^


Ugh. The only thing worse than people thinking society should be like the military is people thinking the society should be like their particular religion. ><

I'm being hyperbolic, of course, but I agree with you that society at large should not be using military policy (or religious policy!) to determine their secular, civilian policies. Organizations like the military or the various churches should accept that they have a place in society, and within their own organizations, they can act according to their policies, (but are not exempt from society's laws) but they should not attempt to force all of society to conform to their organization's policies.

It's the same reason I'm angered by conservatives' attempts to write their particular religious beliefs into law regarding things such as gay marriage, for example, when we were designed from the very beginning to be a secular society with civil laws, distinct from religions laws. Freedom of religion is a fundamental tenet of our constitution, and writing laws based on a particular religion is essentially 'forcing' people to live by that religion's rules. But that's a whole other can of worms. :P
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Re: #685

Postby Mike on Wed May 18, 2011 7:40 am

Special interest groups carry a big fucking stick though, which makes all the policy and such more difficult. There's the re-invigorated "teach intelligent design as science" coming back into the mix. Texas history content standards for k-12 are trying to (or have) cut out Jefferson, mentions of slavery, and all that. It even goes the other way... a lot of Pro-Women organizations banded together to "remove" early female pioneers from the history books... since the earliest pioneers in the west were *gasp* prostitutes.

So yeah... things get shitty whenever extremists on either side of the spectrum get involved... since they embed themselves in every little god damned crack in society.
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Re: #685

Postby MadCat on Wed May 18, 2011 8:51 pm

Agreed.
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